Ben, yes seriously…George Jones is s Grand Master…and Patty, George Strait, Alan Jackson and VInce Gill will be considered as such someday as well. I think they are on the verge, mark my words. Their fidelity to Tradition and their creative re-interpretation of classic Country songs, themes and musical elements has already put them in VERY high standing with critics and musical scholars. I have a stack of reviews of Sleepless Nights where many critics state that Patty Loveless is already one of the greatest Country singers of all time, and some say she is the last of the true Country singers. And I’m sure I could find similar statements regarding the other artists I mentioned as well,. And most of these still active artists are far to humble to admit this, but oftentimes their covers are superior to the originals…Now THAT would be a good topic for discussion and debate, I could give some really clear examples of this.(subjective, of course) Just because someone is from an earlier era, or even a pioneer in some way, does not automatically make them a better artist or singer! But George Jones truly is one of the best male singers of all time, in ANY genre, no doubt.

Razor X, GREAT rule of thumb, I think you nailed it!.

Marc, no, you didn’t strike a nerve…but I admit, I did kind of BYPASS one point that Lynn was making in favor of another, equally relevant point…I did not miss the point, but I do see where you could have taken it that way….I didn’t address Lynn’s comparison question of the six songs as thoroughly as I should have, and went right to what I percieved as the essence of the topic, which Lynn also formulated into a question, namely “what makes a Country song Country?” or words to that effect. My first response to the comparison question was an elaboration of the first post actually, where someone said, “can we choose none of the above?” Which is kinda what I did. As for my outside examples, sorry if you dont like that technique, but that’s just my style…again, if your bear with me, I usually do bring it home to the main point of the discussion And I have no problem when people just respond to the theme, topic or subject of the thread. But youre right, it is good when we engage each other in discussion and debate as well..

And I see we agree on Keith Urban! For the record though, I’d just like to make it clear that I think Keith Urban is an amazing talent, a great and sensitive song-writer, a good, expressive singer, and a phenomenal guitar virtuoso. I just don’t see how he fits into ANY definition of Country.

Actually, Dan…you have given the best explanation I have read or heard so far. No place for a Country flavored pop, acoustic, or soft rock musician except in the ever broadening Country music marketplace. But I guess what you call Country flavored, I call folk flavored. But you make me curious to sample Keith Urban’s Golden Road record…Sounds like some good, richly textured acoustic stuff there, and any sonic similarity to Bluegrass has me intriqued.

But so far, the only really Country song I have heard by Keith Urban, is the single “Where the Blacktop Ends”

But it is kind of ironic, that the man most of us acknowledge has very little real connection to traditional Country music, is celebrated with award after award as one of the greatest Country singers of our time!

I’d just like to elaborate on a point that Leeann and I were discussing…Rock and Blues influence as opposed to Pop infuence…I think we do agree here, about Rock and Blues spicing up Country whereas too much pop, waters it down. A great example is Patty Loveless’ music. She has described her style as “Traditional Country with and edge”…I believe the edge she is referring to is a heavy Rock and Blues influence, especially on her earlier, Honky Tonk stylings.. And dang, that suits me just fine…that is actually one of the many, many reasons she is my favorite artist!

And I love what Trisha Yearwood has been doing with her last two albums, masterfully bringing those Rock and Blues influences to bear on her material as well.

And several people have picked up on the Jennifer Nettles accent discussion…I just wonder, does anyone know if she came up covering Reba songs? Or if Reba was a great influence on her? That could explain a lot.

Steve from Boston

“Patty Loveless, Vince Gill, Alan Jackson, George Strait or George Jones or one of the other Grand Masters”

aside from Jones, all I can say is srsly?

Steve, sorry if I struck a nerve, I took the lead question to be as much a comparison of the songs listed, rather than going outside the scope. In your subsequent post you expanded upon that theme. That said, I greatly appreciate, for once, that the comments have turned into an actual discussion. I’m kinda sad when I see one of the great topics on this and 9513 and the comments are basically just responses to the theme and rarely eachother.

As for Keith Urban.. he’s 10x LESS country than Taylor Swift, and I’m not much of a Swift fan (or hater, to be fair)

(1) Taylor Swift, “White Horse.”
Unlike Urban, who actually tries to incorporate elements of country and bluegrass into his otherwise straightforward adult-pop sound in a way that demonstrates how the conventions of those two genres actually can compliment each other, Swift is an example of an act who seems to tack flourishes of country instrumentation– the occasional banjo riff here, a don’t-call-it-a-fiddle there– as afterthoughts. Which is why the pop remixes of her singles for which she’s often unfairly vilified actually sound more natural and work better: Girl can structure a pop song brilliantly. And that’s the case here, as well. I actually look forward to hearing the pop version of this, which is easily her best song. I just don’t think that anything about the song’s narrative really rings true as “country” music, and the attempts to “countrify” the production are strident and ineffective.

(2) Brandi Carlisle, “Folsom Prison Blues.”
Covering a classic country song doesn’t necessarily make the new performance “country,” but the fact that Carlisle doesn’t tinker too much with the arrangement beyond adding electric guitar solos that are more in keeping with the style of her own work would put this somewhere in the territory of, say, Drive-By Truckers or Michelle Malone instead of Patty Loveless or Randy Travis. Which is to say that it falls somewhere under my “big tent” view of the genre, but it’s seated a bit away from the center.

(3) Elizabeth Cook, “Sunday Morning.”
Cook is undoubtedly a hard country singer, and the instrumentation here, as compared to the previous song, is pretty squarely in the middle of a “big tent” view of the genre. I do think it’s debatable whether or not the song really works as a country song, making this the reverse of Carlisle’s case: A country singer covering a song doesn’t necessarily make the new performance “country.” While this is far superior to, say, Mark Wills’ cover of Brian McKnight’s “Back at One” from a couple of year’s back, I’m not entirely sold on this VU song really working as country. Interesting, risky idea from a terrific talent, but the execution is questionable.

(4) Sugarland, “Love.”
As I said in my review of their album, there’s really nothing about either this song or its arrangement that is identifiable to me as country music: Southern-Fried Arena Rock covers it really well. And one of my problems with Sugarland, as others have mentioned, is that Nettles often sounds like she’s trying to mask her deliberate stylistic choices with a ridiculous, affected drawl. As far as Sugarland’s version of Arena Rock goes– and if that’s what they want to record, more power to them, I just wish Nettles would stop exaggerating her accent– I prefer “Take Me As I Am,” which has a stronger hook and melody, to this song. All that said: I do think Sugarland frequently writes and performs “country” music. Their pop influences are just of maddeningly inconsistent quality.

(5) Kelly Willis, “Teddy Boys.”
Something I’ve always loved about Kelly Willis is that, like Trisha Yearwood, she has terrific instincts about choices of cover songs that genuinely work as country. But when I had the privilege of interviewing her a couple of years ago, we talked about how that wasn’t her goal with “Teddy Boys.” The song was intended, at least in part, to showcase the influence that Wanda Jackson’s rockabilly style had on her, and I think that absolutely comes across in both the performance and the production. Still, this song is one of the first times that I ever thought Willis’ tag as “The Queen of Alternative Country” truly fit: The song isn’t country in the least, and little more than the guitar tuning and Willis’ vocal stylings attempt to place the song within the genre. Whatever genre label applies to it, though, it’s just a fantastic single and performance from one of my favorite country artists.

(6) Dixie Chicks, “A Home.”
This is one of my least-favorite songs from Home: Whether or not it’s “country,” I think it’s just dreary, boring, and with a structure that’s awkward by any genre’s standards. But the Chicks, at their best, are one of the best examples of pop-country, and both their vocal and instrumental arrangements, even on one of their weakest songs, showcase a definite understanding of contemporary and traditional country forms.

So if we’re keeping score, that would be:
- Dixie Chicks
- Cook / Carlisle / Willis
- Swift
- Sugarland

Show of hands for those who are surprised that it’s the two current radio A-listers that offer the songs with the least connections to the genre..?

Nettles’ seemingly exagerated accent really turned me off at first too. I’m still not a real fan of hers, but I think I’ve gotten more used to her at least. I doubt that she really decided to sit down and try to exagerate an accent as much as she possibly could. I’m thinking that it’s just her way of singing and talking for who knows what reason. Living where I live, it’s amazing what accents you’ll hear all within the same family. Our best friend has no real detectable accent, while her mother has somewhat of one and her father and siblings have serious downeast Maine accents (leaving off r’s and exagerating certain syllables…probably heard it in some Stephen King movies.).

Steve,
I feel the same as you. I think people have especially good taste when they agree with me.:)

At his most organic-sounding, Keith Urban is country-flavored pop-rock, and since the pop/rock scene generally doesn’t accommodate anything “country-flavored” at all, it was natural that he would wind up marketing himself to country music fans. I agree that Urban’s music has probably had a big part in changing the popular perception of what can musically be considered “country,” and I do take some issue with that. But I also think his musical vision from Golden Road on has been brilliant, and as the All Music review of that album points out, the sound Urban crafted on that album actually brought sonic elements of bluegrass (banjo, mandolin, a reliance on acoustic guitar) back to country radio even as it touted its heavy pop and classic rock influences.

I agree about what I have heard from Elsizabeth Cook, and thanks for the reccomendation Leeann, as I have indicated earlier, I trust your taste and judgement! The example provided however, was very faint in the sound quality, so I couldn’t really get a good bearing on it.

And no offense taken Leeann, I appreciate the way you engage in debate,( and your sense of humor!) but was a little frustrated that I didn’t express myself clearly enough so that you didn’t realize my definition of Country was actually a little broader than I made it seem.

By the way, I do think you have good taste, especially when you agree with me! ;)